Outsourcing content & software creation

Hi everyone,

How successful have you been in finding good content writers or software developers on Rentacoder, Elance, Guru, Scriptlance etc?

If you're anything like me you've probably had both good and bad experiences, but even with the good ones, they've may not been perfect and therefore you've always been on the look out for someone new with each project you do.

Can be very frustrating looking for new freelancers all the time....

My experience with software & script developers is that you have to be very clear with your ideas and specification before they start work. However, sometimes you simply dont have the detail - all you have is a rough idea. How do you outsource idea and thoughts into something more tangible that can be written down into a spec? Any help with this one would be appreciated.

So, just wondered what everyone else's experiences were like when it comes to outsourcing.

If you are looking to outsource software development I suggest you to be very specific.
I mean VERY! Most of the time your coder will be from a different country and English is not
his/her first language, so keep that in mind. Before you choose your coder make sure to ask
for samples of their work so you know what they are capable of.

When writing your specs for software or script development you should explain in every detail
what you want your software to do. Explain how you want the design to look and exactly the process
of how the software will work. You want to be specific about the installation process of your software,
design, work flow, etc.

Choosing the right ghostwriter is a little easier. I always ask for samples of their work and look at their
feedback ratings. I also make sure they can deliver my projects in time.

ScriptLance has always worked well for me Chris :)

I now have built some great relationships with the "winning bidders",
so I rarely even need to post my projects anymore.

Sorry to hear of your bad experiences. Before you choose a winning bid,
be sure to check their review history, and samples of their work.

Sean :)

Chris

I have had good and bad times with outsourcing. A lot of time the problem is ME. I think i need to spend more time on getting the spec's written before I send them off.

Thanks
Charles

I have had success with using Elance. I have used them for voiceovers, programming, banners, logos and even legal opinions. I have yet to have a bad experience with Elance. Good luck!

Rich

There is a company in the Phillipines called "Agents of Value" that actually has their people take and post IQ tests as well as their areas of expertise so that you can see what you are getting. They are kind of pricey, but if you are looking for a long-term relationship, they might be worth a look.

Jim

I have had both good luck and bad luck. I hired one company to develop a site for me for $4500 over a 60 day period. I had paid them $3000 and a year later the project was not done and it looked as though they had stopped working on it altogether.

Money not well spent that’s for sure!

Now when I hire someone from a freelance site I always hire one of the top rated people. You will have to pay more for sure, but you get what you pay for.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chris Douthit

You will have to pay more for sure, but you get what you pay for.

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That seems to never fail :)

Hello

Chris is 100% right. I have wasted $$ before going with the low bid. Now I just throw out the lowest bid from the start.

Also you might ask that in your bid that they include a secret word to make sure they read the bid and to include it in the proposal.

Only about 40% will even read the full specs and give you the secrete word back

Thanks
Charles

Hi Everyone, I just though I would add to this as I am a developer and see things from the other side of the coin so to speak.

A bit about myself, I have been coding for over 20 years. I am working to become a marketer and leave development behind, but it has been a slow transition. I have currently done two successful JV's with a marketer, where I build it and he gets them to come. We split the profits.

Ok, so taking an idea that a marketer has and turning it into a running application can be a but complicated and here is why. As a coder, I would prefer more details for several reasons. Number one, it helps me determine the time it will take to build something. It also allows us to spell out the contract between us better, ie) I will create this, this and this feature, by this date in exchange for $x.
The other reason it is better to have details, is that it stops what we coders call scope creep. That is the part of the project where you marketers (or customers) come to me and say, it would be so cool if we could do this or that when this happens. Can you make it happen? Well of course I can make it happen, but it takes more time and we are now out of the bounds of our original agreement. I may not be able to make the deadline now that we previously agreed upon and you will be upset.
A simple idea, does not always translate into a bit of simple coding :)

Now, I don't mind taking on a "rough idea" as the original poster remarked about is not that difficult, if it is a profit sharing JV. I don't mind putting in lots of hours to create a product that I get a recurring income from, but, taking a rough idea and turning that into a quote for X number of hours is pretty hard in many cases.

So contemplate this when you do your next outsourcing, the more details you have on how things are to work, will save you tons of grief in dealing with your coder. As for the project that never got completed, that was mentioned earlier in this thread, well, in that case I just think you got a bad coder. Or he/she dumped you for a more profitable deal. Either way it is poor behaviour on the part of the coder and it gives all coders a bad name,

Well, that's my 2 cents worth :)
Darren

Hi Darren, I do take your point as I too have been a developer for many years (but not in internet related stuff)

However, there are times when you need some help with..........well, ideas! Sometimes I have so many thoughts running through my head about what I could do for my next project, that I need someone else to do the focusing for me. In this case, it makes sense to hire someone to do the market research and write the spec for you before you then hire a second person to do the coding.

Let me explain:

I am the entrepreneur - the idea creator.

I hire Freelancer No. 1 to explore my ideas further, look at competition, analyze the market and come up with a plan.

This plan then needs to be turned into a spec for a developer (this could either be myself or again I could even outsource this stage).

The programmer then gets given a comprehensive spec and brings it altogether.

.........now that's maybe an extreme case where I could be hiring 3 different people, but its not far off how larger companies work. The difficulty is always finding the good people and then retaining them.

One thing I cant stand seeing on Rentacoder is when you post a project, freelancers simply place a comment (or even a bid) where they simply rattle off:

We are X certified company
and have skill A, B, C, D, E, F, G blah blah blah
We will do a very good job
Look at our profile ........ for examples of our work.

Aaaaaarrrrrrrggggggggggghhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!

They didn't even read my project. They just cut and pasted their standard response they place on any programming job.

Everytime I post on Rentacoder, I can guarantee I'll get at least half a dozen "spam bids/comments"

I wish Rentacoder would tighten their rules.

I like the idea about the secret word Charles, I will have to try that next time.

The problem with freelance sites like Guru or Rentacoder is that developers just bid on anything they come across. They only get selected maybe 1 out of 10 bids, so they just make as many bids out there as they can.

If they read every project description word for word they would spend all day reading leaving not much time for anything else. So they just ballpark their bid based on your estimates and go from there.

If it turns out the developer made an error and under bid, you won’t get free work; instead you will get a very poor or incomplete job.

Every time I place a project on Guru there is one company that I know bids every time and they always bid the same amount no matter how big or small the scope is.

If you are lucky enough to find a quality company that you can build a relationship with going forward I would recommend giving them a nice bonus at the end of the project. They won’t forget it and they will definitely go the extra mile for you next time.

We have had good experiences with Elance.

Here area a few tips:

-You can post a project but also explain that you will pick 2 (or 3) service providers. This way you can let them compete against eachother. You will have to pay a little more the first time but you can be sure that you will end up with a good job and you can choose that person in the future.
-You can also split the job in parts. And let a few service providers compete against each other for the first part. You can then take the best of them for the remaining parts.

Eric

I've got some good writers from Get A Freelancer. Haven't tried Elance yet..

I like Get A Freelancer's escrow system. Neat and protects both parties :)

Fabian

If you are following this thread and are interested in the software side of things, I have made another post on this forum that may be of interest to you:
http://www.jvnotifypro.com/community...pic,857.0.html

Darren

I guess there are quite a few guides that tell about how to outsource..I haven't gone through any yet.

I have only used Scriptlance and have only had one bad experience with a programmer. Good communication with all bidders before accepting a winning bid is key.

I think at one point we all get the bad end of the stick. 3 weeks ago I asked a designer to dress up one of my sales letter. I sent here the page that I liked and told her what I wanted. What I got back was bad. I mean in a very bad way. It seemed that just giving her a example was not what she needed.

We all work in different ways ands sometimes we need to spell out every little detail for people to see.

We can see the big picture but it is our job to help others see it as well.

Charles

outsourcing and getting fantastic results is a very precise process, and has nothing to do with luck.

I was fortunate to meet delavera a long time ago, and when he offered his turbo class 1 on outsourcing, i jumped at it.

If you haven't seen john and his "product launch per week", you should study it...a blueprint for mega profits.

Cheers,

Jack Sinclair

Jack,

Have you got a link to Delevera's outsourcing product?