Only U.S and U.K are smiling - the rest are dying.

Ok a bit drastic I know, but hear me out.

Some of the top copywriters of today in the IM world are all from the U.S and U.K (mostly U.S).

They charge anything from U.S 10 GRAND and more.

This makes it near IMPOSSIBLE for international product owners to EVER obtain such high quality copy for their sales funnel.

Why?

Well, in some countries that amount of money is a LOT and I mean A LOT.
You can buy a CAR with that money in my country. :-\

So how do people from other countries ever hire real "experts" when they simply cannot afford it?

This doesn't just go for copywriting but for other things as well.

Brendan Fredrickson (a smart member here on the forum) recently opened partnering spots where you pay them a hefty fee (20k) and they will revamp your entire business. These prices are extraordinarily high. It's not that big of a WOW if you are from the U.S or U.K, but imagine trying to pay those prices if you are from another country? ???

Regards,
Reinhardt

Hey, Reinhardt.

I can understand where you're coming from, but I look at it this way.

(this response is not targeted at you, Reinhardt ... much of it is in response to what I've seen on this forum. I do answer you a little later .. ;))

First of all ... if you're broke or barely making it, you shouldn't be attempting to start a business.

If you have a wife/husband, family, or other folks depending on you ... go for the guaranteed paycheck and once you get your head above water, work at the pace and expense you can afford to eventually get where you want to be.

In the 'real world', if you want to start a business ... you need a solid game plan, credit, and venture capital before you even take Step 1.

It's not quite as tough on the Net, but the adage 'it takes money to make money' holds up just as well. You still have to put money back into your business continuously for it to grow.

Long story short, if you don't have capital to invest when you start your business, you're going to have to reinvest whatever profit you have left over after paying the bills back into your business until you can afford to take it to the next level. If you do this long enough, you will get to the point where you can afford the copywriter, etc. of your choice.

The problem is that we live in an instant gratification world ... everyone wants everything ... and they want it NOW! LOL

Slow and steady sets the pace ... remember? ;)

That's why I'm continuously trying to pound it into my clients' heads that they have to make sure their house is in order, first ... that they build credibility, gain knowledge and exposure, build their self and product brand, email lists, and work on building new relationships with partners at their level and above on a constant basis before trying to put together that big product launch (just to realize they have absolutely nothing of worth to bring to the table in reciprocation).

When we finally upgrade JVNP, I'm going to feature an expanded NEED and PROVIDE JV and Product Launch Related Services Board with Partner Discounts that will hopefully give fellow JVNP partners a number of choices.

In Brandon's defense, he made it clear that the low end partner he'd be willing to take on would have a business that already makes at least 100K ... a $20K investment to potentially double that and more sounds pretty good to me.

Cheers,

Mike

Man....I wish there was a "thanks" button in this forum so I could click it.

Thanks for that great answer, Mike :D

I totally agree - if you're just starting out, then you have no business paying someone a few G's to do anything (unless it's personal coaching from a reputable expert.. maybe). If you can't afford it...well, there are numerous alternatives to get you to the point where you can. Also, if you can't afford it, chances are that you don't actually need that particular service right now.

As an aside, some copywriters will actually work for equity, but you have to prove to them that you will be able to make it worth their while.

As another aside, you'll find tons of top notch copywriters working for $2-4K. The five figure guys are great if you want the next Clickbank bestseller, but what's wrong with just having an amazing salesletter? :P

Cheers,
Curtis

P.S. Mike, you do coaching? Where do I sign up? :D

I just brought up this subject because I was looking at the fees and thought to myself "this is triple the amount it cost me to set up my offline business".

20K is not that big of an investment for the U.S folks.

but...

20K is an insane amount of money in some countries, which does not mean you are broke, it's just where you live.

I don't mind Brendan and the other guys charging 20k to 50k or whatever for their services.
I actually mailed Brendan and said the price is no problem, as long as there is a guarantee for return. ;D

Haven't heard back from him yet though.

Reinhardt,

"I just brought up this subject because I was looking at the fees and thought to myself "this is triple the amount it cost me to set up my offline business"."

Excellent ... yes, it can be done relatively inexpensive. You've proven that.

Just saying that in the Offline world as well as Online, you can pay for faster and more impressive results in a reasonably short period of time when compared to what it takes to make it ... typically, with free and low cost methods.

Reinhardt ... by all means, if you'd like to offer your own package to new and intermediate level partners, feel free to talk to me about it. Anything I can do to add value to JVNP for it's partners of all levels will be entertained.

Cheers,

Mike

'Thanks' for the additional input, Curtis ... backatcha. ;)

Cheers,

Mike

Hey Reinhardt,

i´m also in this position... it don´t know how to invest such big amounts and i totaly agree what mike is writing...from my very first time i started reinvest all i have... but believe me i can´t give away $20000 for a copywriter... i think that´s too much..but you´re right when you are writing that the price is no problem when there is a guarantee for return....but who can give you this guarantee for return?? nobody..in my opinion..

cheers,

Patrick

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reinhardt Gallowitz

20K is not that big of an investment for the U.S folks.

---

What you mean to say is "20K is not that big of an investment for anybody who has the money". I'm sure there are a few Americans who can't afford that price tag either (or Canadians like me for that matter).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Patrick Mader

Hey Reinhardt,

i´m also in this position... it don´t know how to invest such big amounts and i totaly agree what mike is writing...from my very first time i started reinvest all i have... but believe me i can´t give away $20000 for a copywriter... i think that´s too much..but you´re right when you are writing that the price is no problem when there is a guarantee for return....but who can give you this guarantee for return?? nobody..in my opinion..

cheers,

Patrick

---

Patrick,

Don't let a copywriter hear you say that $20K is too much for copywriting services...lol. Nothing that a copywriter ever charges is "too much" if they have a track record.

I don't have that kind of money right now, but if I did, I would give it all away in a heartbeat if I knew I would make an awesome ROI.

You mentioned a guarantee for return...the only reason anyone in the IM world should be paying $20K for copywriting is if they have an excellent product, an army of affiliates, and an excellent back-end in place. Many of the gurus happen to have all these things, so they'll shell out 5 figures for copy without blinking an eye.

Keep in mind that professional copywriters don't just hand over a .DOC file and go their merry way. They'll give you marketing advice, additional headlines to test, and more.

Curtis

Hi Reinhardt,

Look, I'm in the same boat as you are.

But I started small. I started with $50 that I made from eBay and then started reinvesting over and over again in my information product businesses until I started to make some nice earnings before I started spending big on copywriters, designs etc.

The point is, start small.

When your business gets bigger, then use the cashflow or the money in that business to grow your business. That is how real-life businesses work.

Warren Buffett didn't buy the Coca-Cola stocks right away. He made some money before investing in Coca-Cola.

Hope you get what I meant.

Cheers

P.S. We have 200-300% tax on all imported cars in Malaysia. So, a simple BMW 7 series can cost as much as $300,000. (Maybe that's why we seldom see Malaysian marketers with big cars)

I think I might have come across wrong.

What I'm trying to say is that I do have enough funds to invest in something like that, HOWEVER....there needs to be some form of guarantee with such an investment because it's not minor cash.

Reinhardt

Reinhardt,

These guys didn't get to be known as the top guys at what they do by sucking. Do you really think a copywriter could get away with charging $15K for example if their copy did not convert?

On the off chance that your $15K letter doesn't convert as well as you'd hoped, then your $15K copywriter will do rewrites until it does. As a top level service provider, reputation is everything. If you're a cent-per-word article writer, who cares if you're a day late or subpar with your customer service. But when you're at the top, your client's success is your success, their failure is your failure. A happy client turns into a returning client.

It's not possible to guarantee results with such investments. If it was, everyone would be rich. You're taking a calculated risk by investing in something like this. Plus, not everything depends on the service provider - what you bring to the table affects your results as well.

Cheers,
Curtis

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Curtis Ng

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reinhardt Gallowitz

20K is not that big of an investment for the U.S folks.

---

What you mean to say is "20K is not that big of an investment for anybody who has the money". I'm sure there are a few Americans who can't afford that price tag either (or Canadians like me for that matter).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Patrick Mader

Hey Reinhardt,

i´m also in this position... it don´t know how to invest such big amounts and i totaly agree what mike is writing...from my very first time i started reinvest all i have... but believe me i can´t give away $20000 for a copywriter... i think that´s too much..but you´re right when you are writing that the price is no problem when there is a guarantee for return....but who can give you this guarantee for return?? nobody..in my opinion..

cheers,

Patrick

---

Patrick,

Don't let a copywriter hear you say that $20K is too much for copywriting services...lol. Nothing that a copywriter ever charges is "too much" if they have a track record.

I don't have that kind of money right now, but if I did, I would give it all away in a heartbeat if I knew I would make an awesome ROI.

You mentioned a guarantee for return...the only reason anyone in the IM world should be paying $20K for copywriting is if they have an excellent product, an army of affiliates, and an excellent back-end in place. Many of the gurus happen to have all these things, so they'll shell out 5 figures for copy without blinking an eye.

Keep in mind that professional copywriters don't just hand over a .DOC file and go their merry way. They'll give you marketing advice, additional headlines to test, and more.

Curtis

---

yes you´re right...for this good situated guys that have a army of affilates aso... thats no problem... but what about the liddle guys who are trying to sell their products?? I´ve i had i also would spend this amount but for sure when you´re in this position you´re not even livting a finger to write a course...other will do that for you...not ?? i think so... But to get in this position is a long way and hard work..

Cheers,

Patrick

The thing with that, Patrick, is that the little guys (or beginners I should say), with all due respect, would probably not know what to do with a five-figure salesletter (for example). Copywriters will discuss strategy, tweak your letter, and stuff like that, but they won't teach you traffic generation basics or give you a soup to nuts crash course on Internet marketing.

Also, you mentioned little guys and their products. Product creation is definitely important, but let's think about what kind of product a newbie could create. Let's say a newbie's in the IM niche and wants to create a product on how to do affiliate marketing for example. Who would want to buy a product on how to do affiliate marketing from someone who has never done it before?

All I'm saying is that if you can't afford it, you probably don't need it.

Can't afford to shell out 2K for Mass Control? You should probably first establish a business foundation to get yourself up to the point where you can.

Can't afford a domain and hosting? You should probably get a job to support yourself and anybody else who have a responsibility to before you think about starting an online business.

Curtis

Because you're right Curtis. And as I said, if I had $ 20,000 to spend and this could, I would do it.
Also your view, the experts sell other products as a beginner is definitely correct.

The only thing i tried to say is that beginner have work really hard in this time,harder then before, to reach such goals.

cheers,

Patrick

Curtis,

Good Point. You're right on the money. You have to build your stable foundation first before you try to build your skyscraper. Pay your dues, build your lists and use the tools available to you at your particular level.

If people look at 20k as being a lot of money, then they shouldn't even be looking at products and services at that level, because, they just aren't ready for those yet. They need to keep working on building their skills, from the bottom up. Very few people in life get to start at the top. Those that do get to start at the top, without working their way up the ladder of experience, most times just make mistakes with more zeros on the end of them. Just saying.

Great discussion topic guys,

Tony Cristo

It's a huge amount to invest in a business...

I started from zero and got into a safe place, well, a little more than safe.

You can invest that money smartly and make millions from it if you actually think before you go for it.

P.S

I know of a few big names who also started from zero investment and today they have a million dollar business. I thing that it's not how much you have to invest, but how much you invest from yourself to make it happen.

Mike G