They say JVs don't work - can you prove them wrong?

Hi,

These days I started to look around how to find JV partners for product launches.
Focusing on promo JVs is a somewhat restricted view of JV, but it's what most JVs in our industry are about I guess.

I did a lot of research in forums, blogs, review sites and sales letters and the results are disappointing.
In forums lots of people talk about it, but very few actually share real life experiences from their own business. It seems that people are just posting their guesswork or wish list.

And of course lots of people say they tried - but did not get successful results.

Summarizing what I found there are 3 groups in a combination that does not produce great results for the most:
1) LOTS of people who want others to promote their product.
2) Some people who promise to promote it, while actually only collecting freebies of the product without doing anything in return.
3) Only a few honest and serious partners who do successful promotions for the product vendors.

Here's a typical summary of someone who tired.

Quote:

---

"I was a member for a few months so I could test the system with my own products. I have to say that I was extremely disappointed. Many of the people who took free copies of my software to review, send a testimonial, or promote to their mailing lists did nothing. I have not received testimonials, and my software was not promoted by most of them. In fact, only one person did promote my stuff after receiving her free copy."

---

This review is not related to JV Notify Pro, but it fits right in with Mike's rant. (http://www.jvnotifypro.com/community...pic,353.0.html)

Sales letters to commercial JV platforms typically contain testimonials with lots of enthusiasm but also no results. A current sales letter for a JV seminar e.g. has only one testimonial that shares results of a person who had a successful launch...an that's the organizer of the seminar himslef. Not very convincing, since being the leader he typically gets all the attention and support of the crowd.

Lift up our spirits, share your story. :)

Despite my somewhat negative conclusions above I'm sure it's not all bad and look forward to some stories to lift up all our spirits.

So now it's time for those who walk their talk, those who are active in their business and who managed to create successfull promo JVs, to share their real life experience.

• Which methods of getting JVs have you tried?
• How did you pull of successful JVs?
• What did work for you, what didn't?

Thanks for sharing,
Ralf

Great topic, Ralf.

I think one of major problems with Joint Venture Marketing in 2007 is that JVs have been pushed into the 'make money fast' category, as opposed to it's original intent ... mutual reward derived from combined effort between 2 parties.

Joint Ventures should come after entering into a relationship, not before.

I've seen too many newbie to intermediate Marketers throw together a product and run around looking for JV partners, when they should focus on building their self and product brand ... first, and build relationships one at a time with partners at their level to potentially co promote with.

HINT: The reason I created JVNP was to satisfy that need ... are you making good use of it?

Once they start to use the leverage gained by building this 'inner circle' of partners to build relationships with higher level partners, their JV efforts will be maximized by the partners that are more loyal and obliged to participate because they took the time to become intimate and reciprocal.

That is why I tell my clients to give me up to a month and a half notice prior to asking potential partners to participate ... to give them and/or their affiliate manager sufficient time to get to know each potential partner well in advance of the launch. Those that have not followed my advice have largely failed, and it doesn't surprise me ... to expect a mass email every other day to be the only motivation a JV Partner needs to keep their focus on a project is foolish, and very costly.

Understand that the only JV fueled launches that do well without intimate one on one interaction prior to launch is because the merchant and/or their product line has achieved 'celebrity' status ... they have already qualified themselves to a large extent in regards to self and product branding (that doesn't mean they couldn't have done even better if they had their Launch Manager taken the personal touch route).

... the rest of us have to work at building our self and product brand, our strategic 'circle of friends' alliances, and not put the cart before the horse by trying to grab every JV partners we can find ... only to wind up with a poor launch and a puss on our faces. :(

Just my 2 cents ... for now. ;)

Best,

Mike

As someone completely new to JVs I have done my research and always found it kind of odd that you have "build relationships" with people first. I don't have anything against that, but this is business not happy hour or social time for me. In every other form of marketing I've done, it's always business first, then friendships come from doing solid business together. In JV marketing it seems to be the other way around. I know networking is important, but if someone has a solid product why do they have become your buddy before you'll help them promote it?

I'm not knocking it, just saying it's kind of different...?

I'm not talking about the 'let's go down to the corner pub and grab a brew' type of 'buddy' (though I'm not totally against the idea. ;)).

I'm talking about building a trust through interaction prior to asking for a favor ... I get JV invites on a daily basis ... the one's I take less time to go over with a fine tooth comb are the one's that come from folks I have a rapport with ... they've pre qualified themselves to a certain extent ... is that so odd?

Best,

Mike

I have mixed results with my attempts to rally up joint venture partners for an online product launch. But what I have learned so far is exactly in line with what Mike mentioned here... the better reputation you have online and the more people you meet, the better results you will have.

I have noticed that each new site I created leads me to meet new marketers, therefore making each new site launch a bit better than the last, since my web of connections is growing and growing.

As you work online and gain experience in your niche you will also begin to build better products and nicer looking sites, which will also attract better partners.

There is a million and one reasons a product launch can go wrong and it's hard to point the blame at your JV partners. This seems to be a frequent happening and I believe it to be part of human nature. What I mean is we have a tendency to blame others for our shortfalls rather than looking within and examining what WE did to cause something to not go as intended.

I'm not criticizing anyone here specifically, just generalizing some of the things I've seen and heard on multiple forums.

My first online product ever was a total mess. When I say total mess I MEAN COMPLETE DISASTER. The site looked like crap and the product itself was pretty weak now that I look back on it... I didn't know ANYBODY in the business and I was on every mailing list you can imagine, and then some.

I started replying to newsletter messages I was receiving from the lists I was on with lame JV proposals asking for help promoting my new product. I got little to no response for several reasons and here are a few:

* The site looked like hell
* The product itself was weak
* I had ZERO reputation or rapport with anyone
* No one had ever even heard my name

I started to recognize some of the causes of my product's flop. My very next project I teamed up with a completely unknown marketer who at the time, didn't even consider himself a marketer.

He had a lot of knowledge about "MySpace" at the time MySpace marketing was the big craze and we happened to have worked together on eBay related stuff as we were both PowerSellers at the time. I was trying to transition from eBay seller to internet marketer because it seemed like more payoff for less effort.

I put a site together around his knowledge and I still had little to no online presence or reputation. I decided to launch the site under an alias and I focused all my effort around creating value.

I put together a much more focused "launch" and started using the contacts I was making in discussion forums, webinars, etc. I personalized each and every JV request instead of sending out the same lame-a$$ JV message to a bunch of different people.

I gave away access to my new membership site and started getting testimonials, feedback, and I actually listened to what more experienced marketers suggested and implemented changes before going live.

I "launched" that site so to speak almost a year ago, on October 31, 2006 - Halloween day. The site still brings in a sale every couple of days after nearly a year, and I had a wonderful launch like most people talk about on forums.

I don't consider it luck and it's not because I go to 3 dozen seminars a year. In fact, I've only been to two in my entire life. The first was Shawn Casey's and I ended up becoming friends with Shawn and he actually promoted my site just days after the seminar... (this was months after the site was live), and the second was as a VIP at Ross Goldberg's first ever seminar.

By taking my time and listening to people who are wiser than me I've learned a ton about internet marketing in a very very short time. The site I talked about here that launched on 10/31/06 is still up and profitable. To date, that little website has pumped out approximately $50k in gross membership sales and has been a major contributor to helping me build a responsive and nicely sized mailing list.

I don't consider myself an expert and am still learning every day... but from personal experience I know that JV's WORK! You just have to take the right approach and network! Build value packed quality sites and products and next thing you know you'll be making contacts left and right as you attract attention to yourself and your site.

Make sure that everyone you meet who is knowledgeable and experienced gets their own spot in your contacts list. I use MS Outlook but use whatever works for you. When I first started IM was just a dream to me and I thought it was all B.S. and that only the guru's can make it work... less than 2 years later I am the proud owner of a 3BR 2 bath house and just two days ago I made an offer on what's been almost like a dream car to me (a Land Rover)... I'm waiting to hear back from the dealer :).

And guess what, it DID NOT all happen overnight. I worked, and then worked some more... I feel I've earned every little bit of progress I've achieved... and too many people want that instant gratification of creating a new product expecting all the big names to promote it for them... they do that newbie math in their head and daydream about buying a porsche instead of focusing on the things we talked about here.

*** Let's see, if I get Filsaime, Fox, and Mike Merz to promote my product at $27, and I sell 4,000 copies...
That would be $108,000 dollars... I will give half to my affiliates and buy that Porsche with my other half...

*** I hate to be the one to burst that magical bubble but this isn't how it works... ;D

The best part of all of it is I still only consider myself to have achieved a small amount of success and I fully intend to continue growing my online business by building my contacts list and building bigger, cooler, and better websites.

Once you start making things WORK, just rinse and repeat. I now have over a dozen sites in multiple niches. A few of them are in IM and they are almost all making me a few dollars here and there :P.

Sorry to have been so long-winded, you guys got me all fired up because I believe JV's work if done properly and I wanted to help the thread starter get a little lift in that spirit of his ;)

Great story, Chris ... very inspiring.

This thread has the potential to be the most rewarding in the forum ... please follow up Ralf, Will, Chris, and my responses with your own opinions and concerns.

Best,

Mike

Here's my approach to becoming a partner. This is a business deal. You have a product you want me to market. I need to review the product to see #1 if it's good and #2 if it will fit into my overall business plan and vision. If it does not meet that criteria, then I tell them sorry, it's not a good fit for my business.

I get a lot of people who want me to critique their sites and products to tell them how to improve upon them. If when I turn down a potential JV and they want me to critique their stuff, I will. However, I do not candy coat anything. I mean that never helped anyone and I don't want to waste my time fluffing and your time trying to figure out what's fluff or not. So I don't do that. I'm straight and blunt in my reviews.

If the products are a match, I send out a broadcast to the group and/or put it in my autoresponder series. I also treat the product as I would my own, since it's an income stream, why wouldn't I?

I recently went to Jeff Mills' Midwest Super Conference and within a week I started making money on something that wasn't even my product! The approach has to be the same! Overall it's YOUR BUSINESS. It's time to start thinking like the CEO of your business and treat others with honor and respect! If not, people will not want to do business with you. In business, you should NEVER burn a bridge. That bridge could have been an income stream in the future.

Get your mind right and treat a JV as it should be, a partnership.

For those of you who don't know. JV = Joint Venture Partnership

So treat your Partnership as you would like to be treated when it comes time to launch yours!!!

Nice, Michael ... as a matter of fact, your last line is comparable to the one featured in every JVNP mailing as my 'golden rule'.

What it all boils down to is playing odds and a lot of variables to tilt them in and out of favor ... you have to do what you can to keep the odds on your side.

Build a solid business and slowly leverage yourself and your partners through one on one reciprocation ... doesn't make sense to swing for the fences in the early going when getting on base consistently puts food on the table.

Let's hear some more ... great stuff.

Best,

Mike

Hi Ralf, Tony Germana here.

They that say JVs don't work are simply wrong. JVs do work if you work them right.

Rarely do they work when an unknown gets a bunch of unknowns together to launch something. Joint Ventures are not and won't work as quick hit get rich quick efforts.

Remember this is a business. If you had $400,000 invested in your business, would you invite "Joe Crap" the ragman off the street to be your business partner? Of course not. Well don't do it here either.

Make the effort to meet serious marketers and develop relationships with them. There are plenty of serious marketers here that will work with you when you have established you presence and reputation as a serious marketer. This is not a catch 22. You don't have to be making tons of money (or any for that matter) to be a serious marketer. If you demonstrate committment and determination, serious marketers will consider you one of "them".

I am discovering more and more after 30 years in 'brick and mortar" businesses that doing business here is not much different. Who you know is very important. Who you are and how you are perceived is critically important.

We have enjoyed and continue to enjoy successful JVs. I won't advertise them here, that's not the purpose.

Just keep working at it. When you begin to make the right connections, believe me, you'll know it and you'll have more serious JV parterns to work with than you can say grace over.

Keep the faith!

Tony Germana
Founder: Germana Group

This is a great thread, I'd like to add my success story with JVs to the pile.

First of all, JVs are like everything else in marketing... It's a numbers game.

It's exactly like that first ad everyone has to write as an affiliate marketer... You just can't know all the variables about one ad, so when it fails to make them millions, they usually blame the process itself of being flawed... They think they need a million-dollar ad copy writing course or need that big-name JV to send it to their list... Basically blaming the wrong factors when all they needed was to send out a few variations and of course more numbers.

When I wrote my JV Invite emails to all of the Joint Venture Partners for my Surefire Success Launch, I treated that list, made up only of affiliates and experienced marketers, like a numbers game and wrote THEM the best copy I could to SELL them on selling Surefire Success. -You've got to treat it no differently than selling an affiliate product itself. -It's all about convincing others to do what you want them to do, primarily by offering an incentive.

As Mike can tell you, I didn't know too many JVs at all when I came to this board and asked Mike to help me get the word out for Surefire Success. I'd written some free ebooks before, but that was my only for-money product launch.

I'd followed the infamous 'product launch formula' somewhat closely and worked hard on each and every one of the variables. I got some people to Beta test it for me, so I could post their testimonials on the sales page. I worked non-stop on the copy, and looking back it could have been a lot better.

But most of my time for the month leading up to launch through today has been talking to JVs & affiliates, offering them any help I could give them.

I KNOW that's made all the difference. I didn't break the clickbank record but for a whole month after launch I was getting some great numbers and still make daily sales now, 5 months later.

I have never met JVs at a seminar yet so I am living proof that you don't need to line up your JVs in advance to have a successful launch... I found plenty enough Right here. Mike's done a Terrific job in that respect.

Of course if you have a great sales page, and better yet, can show numbers that it converts (such as 5% of all AdSense Traffic you throw at it) then by all means approach all the big-name Gurus out there. I talked to Ewen Chia, Joel Comm, Bob the Teacher, Allyn Gardyne, Ken Evoy, and plenty others that way and they all gave consideration... But in the end my copy wasn't good enough. My fault. -So they are listening, every last one of them.

I still found dozens of biggish-name Gurus through sheer numbers. Liz Tomey, Ben Shaffer, and some of my other contest winners found me through this board, but some of the others I contacted on their Blogs. -Yes, the Blogoshpere is FULL of people with influential readers. I'd rather have ten known bloggers than one known list owner any day... Those write reviews for you that stick around, and the search engines see those!

So JVs come in all forms, and they all take work, every last one. Just don't worry about buying them a beer first, you can approach anyone if you've got the right ingredients for a successful launch.

If you don't, and they can tell you don't, then what possible reason would they have to choose your launch over some other guy's who does that week?

Myself, I only recommend 1 product to my lists each week. I look in places like here to find launches that not only look like they'll sell well, but are priced affordably, really work like promised, and also that are highly targeted to my list. Sometimes the first product I peek at will be great, but sometimes I have to search hard and still won't find one. The bottom line is, each and every affiliate and JV out there has lots of variables to consider about each and every launch they consider, so you have to look at it like a numbers game.

Have a great product, make sure it sells well up front, then approach everyone you can, and offer all the help you can to them. If you just do that then JVs are a Surefire Success. :)