2nd-tier for PayPal or Clickbank product launches

[Rob Toth]

This is primarily for those who are familiar with systems such as RAP (Rapid Action Profits) and 7DS (7 Dollar Script)...

This is probably just wishful thinking...

I'm just wondering about how feasible this is (if I wanted to hire an outside programmer to create it).

I have a "situation". I love the RAP (and 7DS) affiliate system (affiliates paid immediately to their PayPal)... but it closes the doors to me for setting up a proper product launch using a broker (namely Mike!).

I'm reworking my BuyNowWizard.com sales page and the product... it's becoming pretty slick if I do say so myself. I also have some pretty impressive testimonials coming in from some well established marketers (14-year veterans, etc). In short, this project is maturing quite nicely after just a few weeks of a quiet release.

I'd love to have an official "relaunch" and bring on the affiliate recruiting abilities of a JV broker such as Mike but his setup asks for a 2nd tier commission to be put in place (for his brokerage fees). Of course, that's entirely understandable... but I'm running BNW on RAP (or will be 24-48 hours from now)!

See the problem?

So that brings up a question that I'd be willing to pay more than fairly to develop a solution for: is there a way to cater to a 2nd tier request from Mike and still run the entire thing on my RAP system?

Of course, the 2nd tier wouldn't be a commission split (since PayPal doesn't allow for this) but instead a "# of sales split" which is why I don't think it would work well.

Can anyone think of another work-around? I'd love to be able to meet Mike's brokerage fees requirements and properly re-launch (official grand opening) Buy Now Wizard.

Any input is absolutely welcomed and appreciated.

(SIDENOTE: Come to think of it... a question to all publishers who sell via Clickbank. How have YOU released a product with the help of our famous Mr. Merz? You would have probably hit the same wall that I'm facing ??? )

[Mike Merz]

You've got me blushing, Rob! LOL

Seems we're walking on thin ice when we mention PayPal and multi-tier payment structures ... and I would never want to put a merchant partner in the potentially disastrous situation that may occur if we tried to sneak it by (I've been a loyal PP member for nearly 8 years, and would like to keep it that way).

What I have been doing ... seeing there is no existing solution that automates multi-tier in ClickBank, I've honed it down to the following.

Ingredients:

AWeber, GetResponse, Email Aces, etc. Autoresponder (an autoresponder that allows lead capture forms with multiple fields).

A Google account (to share Google Docs).

A unique ClickBank account (that I can have access to).

We set up a unique to me JV page that asks for registration in order to participate.

The email form asks for full name, email, and ClickBank ID.

A simple search will generate a report of all the partners I've referred, including the CB ID. The report can be uploaded to the shared Google Docs account at an agreed upon time interval (usually daily).

Once the product launches, we'll have a list of partners and IDs that we can both compare to the CB sales stats.

We'll both have access and can keep an eye on who is and who isn't participating from looking at both reports, making it easier to follow up.

I realize this is far from accurate ... but until someone comes up with something better, it works well enough.

Payment can be tallied and paid separate from other commissions, taking the fear out of operating a true, automated 2 tier system ... and the potential of having your PayPal account messed with. ;)

Best,

Mike

[Richard Legg]

Hey Guys,

This is something I'm also interested in for future products, particularly higher ticket items
where a 2-tier system could be a great motivator.

One question I wanted to ask was with regards to some of these 'free report' sites that offer
a 2-tier payment scheme for leads, but then payout through Paypal.

My understanding was that any 2-tier stuff could be considered MLM and therefore cause
for getting your account shut down.

Does anyone know if this type of model is paypal legit? i.e. Have they got permission from
the AUP dept to use that model, or are they just doing it without the big P's knowledge?

Thanks,


Richard

[charleskirkland]

Richard

If paypal gets any idea what so ever that you are using a 2nd tier program they will shut your account down then ask questions.
I have this happen to my last year with my paypal pro account. I was runing a 2nd tier on a site for about 3 months. One of my affilates who sells the same thing as I do called paypal. They just pulled the plug and started asking questions later.


Thanks
Charles

[Richard Legg]

Hi Charles,

That was pretty much my understanding too (which is why I've never done it - my account is way too important)

I was just curious as to some of the other sites I've seen recently e.g. the free reports that aren't actually selling anything BUT pay out 2-tier through paypal for leads generated.

And then there are other 2-tier affiliate programs that take payments through 1shoppingcart or some other way, but then have paypal as a payout option.

Anyone have any idea how/if that's ok with Paypal?

Thanks,

Richard

[Christopher Schumacher]

Hey Mike,

I think my business partner and I have found a way to solve the clickbank portion of this issue. If you can, contact me so I can give a brief idea of what we'd need to make it happen.

Sincerely,

Chris

[Brian McElroy]

Say, would it be possible to use Launch Formula Marketing for this structure?
I know it has a 2-tier option... and we're accepting PayPal and 2CO... don't
want to get a PayPal ban though!

Many thanks,
Brian

[Scott Logan]

I'll tell ya Paypal is so touchy about 2 Tier my partner and I recently started selling a product that talked about 2-tier affiliate selling to make some start up cash (nothing more then typical JV brokering techniques - getting two like minded parties together and profiting by the introduction of these 2 parties as a broker)

This was mentioned in the sales page and they canceled our account

We hadn't even setup a 2 tier program for the product ourselves yet.

There explanation was that because we mentioned it in our sales piece they did not support that type of product. And they won't budge. They have our money for the next 6 months which is a crock and the worst part is it was selling really well.

So be very careful. btw this product has been on the net for over 4 years with another vendor just not being sold with Paypal. Within 1 month of setting up a new shopping cart system that used Paypal exclusively it was shut down

Makes me wonder about that other vendor....hmmmm ???

Just fyi,

O well we'll sell it using another processor. no worries




Wishing You Whole Life Success!

Sincerely,
Scott Logan
Night Owl Marketing
All-In-One-Business.com

[Christopher Schumacher]

I think by now, most folks should know the perils of Paypal...live by their rules, or have your account frozen.

Paypal is fickle, but it's their system and their world...

The software we're looking at creating will:

1) Not be available to the public anyways.
2) Simply be a tool to track things much better than what is currently being done. Using spreadsheets and autoresponders as mechanisms may work, but can be greatly simplified into a one step process, and with our method, the product owner won't have to share his account with anyone (which should make them a little more secure).

BUT...we aren't building it unless I hear from Mike first, simply because it's designed for him and his clients, and would be a waste of our time to build something that wouldn't be released publically, and wouldn't be used by those whom it was designed for.

Sincerely,

Chris

[Ralf Skirr]

Hi,

I'm not 100% sure what you want to accomplish here, but I guess it could easily be done with JVManager and its 'Charity commission' feature.

This means that for each product you can setup a commission that is paid to a specific person with each sale. Initially this was meant to pay out JV partners who participated in the creation of the product.

So if I wanted to pay Mike for a promotion through his partners I would create a copy of my product in JVManager, add Mike as recipient for the charity commissions and all affiliates that Mike sends to my affiliate program would promote the sales letter for this product.

Still it is not a 2 tier affiliate program, because people can sign up for the affiliate program and they have only a 1 tier affiliate program. The only backdraw is that you have to have a separate copy of the product (record in JVManager) and the sales letter, but it takes only 5 minutes to create that.

I hope it does not sound promotional that I talk about JVManager in several posts. I choose JVManager after comparing 40 affiliate scripts. So it's natural for me to look for the solution to all promo and sale related problems with the software I use.

Ralf

P.S. I'm still learning how this forum works, so I created a mess and had to delete double postings.

[Christopher Schumacher]

I don't care for that solution much either. Assuming you had only 1 JV going on, it might not be a big deal...but what if you managed to set up 10 similar JV's with people like that on the same product? Now you have to set up 10 different versions of your sales page and all that.

I would assume that each would be a different product as far as the software was concerned, and therefore, you'd also have to compile your overall stats from each manually to figure out how things are going in a broader sense.

In addition, does JVManager work in cooperation with places like Clickbank? I don't recall it doing so, but then again, I usually have my own affiliate script built specific to whatever product is being released, so don't own all of the scripts out there.

Everything mentioned in this thread will do the job, however none of them are a solution to the overall problem. The problem is how to do those things in a simplified and secured manner that reduces the work needing to be done by the product owner and JV participant (i.e. automation), while still being completely accurate. Everything mentioned so far has just been a "workaround".

Sincerely,

Chris

[Ralf Skirr]

Hi Chris,

I'm sorry that this came across the wrong way. Don't expect my few lines to explain what can be done with a 3.000 dollar script. I was focused on the problem stated in this thread as I understood it.


I don't care for that solution much either. Assuming you had only 1 JV going on, it might not be a big deal...but what if you managed to set up 10 similar JV's with people like that on the same product? Now you have to set up 10 different versions of your sales page and all that.
You would not set up 10 JVs the way I described above.

What I described above is for the rare case that you want to pay out a 2nd tier commission to JV partners without having a 2-tier affiliate program.

Usually you would not set up 10 different JVs that are basically meant to get new 2nd level affiliates. In that case you would rather set up a real 2 tier affiliate program, which can be done easily.

And JVs that are just meant to give your super affiliates higher commissions can be handled with simply inputting a special commission. Roundabout 30 seconds work.


In addition, does JVManager work in cooperation with places like Clickbank?

It can use Clickbank as payment processor. It does not work with CBs affiliate system as its
prupose is to build your own affiliate army across all your products (or parts of your products).

There's a way to use it with CB marketplace, but it's something I would not want to do.


Everything mentioned in this thread will do the job, however none of them are a solution to the overall problem. The problem is how to do those things in a simplified and secured manner that reduces the work needing to be done by the product owner and JV participant (i.e. automation), while still being completely accurate.

I don't see it this way. As I see it a workaround is what is asked for here, otherwise you could simply use a 2-tier program which is the automated solution you talk about. And the system that I described would be completely automated once it is created.

And that's the beauty of the system: that you can use it to create individual set ups completely tailored to your ideas. And once created have them run on autopilot.


The problem is how to do those things in a simplified and secured manner that reduces the work needing to be done by the product owner and JV participant (i.e. automation), while still being completely accurate.

That's exactly the point: You can either
1) restrict yourself to the standard features that scripts and services offer.
2) build a complicated self-made solution that you have to handle manually throughout the whole promo.
3) or use a solution that is designed to build any process you can think of and run it on autopilot while being completely accurate.

I'm rarely happy with standard features, and regarding the work of counting sales and paying commissions etc. I'm really lazy...so I choose alternative #3. :)

Ralf