Aweber and double-optins

[Rob Toth]

This is a copy/paste of a suggestion I sent in to Aweber.

I wanted to post it here to open it up for discussion.

The theme of it is simple: single opt-in and double opt-in each have their merits. If I had to choose one, I'd pick double opt-in anyday and I know many marketers would do the same. BUT, I feel there are ways to merge them to allow for an even more successful model.

If interested... read the threads below...

[Rob Toth]

My initial message to Aweber...



> This is a feature suggestion but also a question to see if you already
> offer this (and maybe I'm just not aware of it).
>
> As you know, in email marketing, a single opt-in means more active leads
> in a merchant's system.
>
> A double opt-in means a higher deliverability though.
>
> I noticed that competitor, InfusionSoft has a smart solution that is best
> of both worlds.
>
> Their clients can choose "single optin" to maximize leads.
>
> The email message that go out the include a message similar to this:
>
> "You are receiving this newsletter because you subscribed or purchased at
> a Strategic Profits website.
> Confirm your address to make sure you don't miss an issue.
> "
>
> The reader is asked to confirm (double opt) *AFTER* they've already
> started receiving emails.
>
> I think a double opt confirmation message going out 1st still makes sense
> but it shouldn't be required to be able to email to that lead. That lead
> should just be mailed to via 2nd tier servers (or however Aweber handles
> this) but the reader can then receive initial messages and be continually
> prompted to "upgrade" to premium emails by confirming their address.
>
> Is this already available?
>
> Any plans to include this? I believe it's a valuable feature.

[Rob Toth]

Hello,

Asking someone to confirm after you have already been sending
them emails makes the process of confirmation pointless.

Having them confirm first generates a verifiable audit trail that not only proves that the subscriber came to you directly for information (and has your permission), but can increase your overall deliverability as well. This also shields you against any unwarranted complaints, as you have proof that they requested to receive email from you.

If you continue sending someone emails even if they don't
confirm, you still run into the exact same issue if anyone
ever marks a message as spam or makes a complaint. I'm
not 100% certain how infusion soft has this set up, but I
imagine the number of complaints this type of set up would
generate would be fairly high.

In addition, it's a really great way to filter out the casual
subscribers from the ones who will respond to your campaign.
Keeping your readers/subscribers involved is a great way to establish
relationships that can increase both your inbox visibility and customer
response.

But I will certainly take a deeper look into this, if
there is anything we can do to make the process
a little bit easier it is worth looking into.


Here's some good reasons to use Confirmed Opt In:

http://www.aweber.com/faq/questions/64/

http://www.aweber.com/blog/case-studies/verified-opt-in-reduces-unsubscribes-complaints.htm


Regards,
Jeffrey Spencer
Customer Solutions Specialist
AWeber Communications

[Rob Toth]

Finally... my reply back. What are YOUR thoughts? How have you tackled the balance between "more leads to mail to" vs. "more audit proof leads, more spam-complaint free business, and higher deliverability"...

============================================




I appreciate the reply.

I've been email marketing and using double opt for years. So it's not news to me.

And I'm aware of the pros and cons of single vs double.

But that being said, arguments can be made for single opt in todays market.

In noisy markets such as the "internet marketing" scene, where email newsletters are a dime a dozen, having a user double opt for something they never had a taste for it a tougher conversion than say in "how to train your zebra" markets.

Of course, the suggestion I put forth is NOT the only one.

I'm aware that we (I) as a merchant can work harder to create custom double-opt confirmation pages that maybe even introduce even more value, un-announced bonuses etc ... but relying on just ONE double-opt message to go out still means at BEST 20% leakage and more typically 33% leakage of the number of leads who opted in that remain "unconfirmed".

At minimum, I believe, it would be a value added benefit to be able to resend the confirmation up to a maximum of 3 times.

Much like your billing system... Aweber doesn't just try to charge a credit card once from it's clients. If declined, it charges 5+ times. Which is sound logic.

But similarly, a merchant shouldn't have to be staring down nearly 33% (and for the not so savvy, likely even as high as 50%) of their leads being "unconfirmed" with them having no legitmate way of reaching them.

So I guess all I'd hope that will be considered is either (1) implement a situation where a single opt can be "upgraded" to the more secure and realiable mailing of a double opt. Afterall, Aweber DOES offer single opt even though it's not recommended. It does exists and plenty of clients use it. For good reason. (2) OR... at least implement the ability to resend a confirmation required message at least once though possibly even up to twice.

It's very logical that the user who opted in, may have faced a flooded inbox and so they missed the confirmation message or 101 other possible scenarios. A followup would allow merchants to retain more of their leads.

Again, the best strategy is a combination of the merchant themselves doing more (providing more value and clarification) to ensure the double opt happens... but I certainly feel Aweber could assist with this too.

Regardles... Thank you for your time!



Rob Toth
Producer and Founder, CanadaMarketingSummit.ca
Co-Founder, MarketingXL.ca
'Genie Marketing' Services, RobToth.com

Office: 1-888-727-3330 | Skype: robtoth | Facebook: robthegenietoth

[nitroweb]

Nice Points Rob.

And i validate your experience with double optins in internet marketing niche.
I had almost a 70% optin rate to a page but the confirmed optins were almost 1 in 4.

I had to switch to single optin - I hav'nt been able to make double optin work in this market if i am buying traffic.


Kind Regards
Tejinder

[Rob Toth]

Just 1 in 4 are confirming for you??

That's extremely low. There's a lot more at play there than just the niche.

I see the opposite of that. 1 in 4 are not confirming. But that still means 20% - 25% lead loss. And the 20-33% attrition is typical in the IM space.

But, as per the post, the balance of having higher deliverability and being "spam complaint proof" is well worth the trade-off.

I just feel that by making tweaks, even more of the leads can be persuaded to double opt.

[nitroweb]

My results were from a concept testing i did .. so yeah it doesn't paint the whole picture.

Email marketing is not my forte - your benchmark of 1 in 4 not confirming was definitely helpful.


I Found these results interesting though i won't consider them statistically significant...

http://www.makepeacetotalpackage.com/daniel-levis/split-test-shocker.html

[Rob Toth]

I appreciate you posting that article.

It confirms that 25-33% standard (at least in a noisy IM vertical)... seems they were seeing 27%-37%.

But also confirms the real purpose of using double opt. Besides being audit proof, it means higher deliverability as any legitimate mailing system will mail double opt on higher priority maintained servers (often called "tier 1 mailings") than the less spam compliant single opt emails.

Thanks again for the article. Brings a lot of value to anyone who reads this discussion.

[Rob Toth]

Wow that's a perfect article.

That solution of combining single opt + double opt is precisely what I'm talking about. As always, men smarter than me are already chewing on a similar solution.

I'll forward the link to Aweber. They too should allow for the "upgrading" option or AT LEAST a resending of confirmation emails.

[Aden Curtis]

Like a fair number of marketeers, I use both single and double opt-in thru Aweber; I also have a second autoresponder that demands the use of double opt-in.

Since I'm still learning from the consequences of using each, and when single opt-in is most appropriate, I really appreciate your post and the links with it and the replies.

Double opt-in certainly weeds-out the window-lookers, but sometimes that is all I want, and I always keep questioning, way in the back of my mind, whether my opt-in email ended up in the spam bucket and was never even seen. All of the pre-filtering hints that my emails are not regarded as spam, but with a verify/confirmation rate of only 1 in 3, I really question the validity of the pre-filter.

I know my mindset is not that of the average Joe, but to opt-in and not confirm seems the result of only one thing provided the email is opened... poor copy for the opt-in email. But even with that aside, I know when I opt-in, I try to overlook the content and grammer of the resulting email because I intend to confirm and get that 1st "true" email. But then, I'm not one of those individuals who has ill intent or other motives in filling in a sign-up form.

But I ramble... thanks for the post!

[Bill Zimmerman]

Really depends on the niche. For my health and beauty stuff, single optin is the way to go 100%. No matter how CLEAR and EASY I try to make the process of the double optin, I get an incredibly low confirmation percentage. I've tested different audio and copy on the 'thank you' page, and different copy on the confirm email...doesn't matter, it still sucks.