salesletters SUCK ... yup!

[Rob Toth]

I sent this to my subscribers...

Decided to post it to my pathetically ugly mini-blog ...

but figured I'd toss it on here too. See what YOU think:

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So I posted about one of my "mo*ney funnels" and mentioned the high conversions that my MoneyNowReport.com gets... even though I have pretty well no salescopy on there at all.

(If you missed that post, head to the mini-blog at http://www.robthegenietoth.com )

No bullet points. No long salesletter trying to sell the visitor on "opting-in".

So why does it convert so much better?

BECAUSE it doesn't have salescopy...

Take a look at a screenshot of a squeeze page I saw from Ryan Diess just yesterday...

... I just posted it to the mini blog (RobTheGenieToth.com)...

BTW... Ryan's business grosses 8-figures annually.

no salescopy!!

And think about the last 6+ month worth of promotions and launches. How many slideshow presentations vs. salespages are you seeing?

we're all growing lazy in this department...

I don't read salespages either.

I know most don't even read INSTRUCTIONS let alone salescopy.

Now, I don't want this to turn into a "is salescopy dead"... first of all, ad copy certainly isn't dead. But are long windeded salesletters the best way to present and sell a concept? I doubt it.

Another few years and we'll probably be able to project a hologram of a robot-salesrep into the prospect's living room and have that hologram make the prospect a nice breakfast and tell it jokes while it goes about a complex, engaging sales presentation.

Will you still be relying on salesletters then?

Most of you probably even gave up reading this email.

Sure, if I made it more engaging, more relevant... you'd read it all the way.

Just like if your salescopy is interesting and relevant to a hot prospect, they'll read it.

but in a marketplace of "too many choices", the REALLY HOT prospect is a minority. You get a lot of lukewarms. ANd you COULD close a lot of those lukewarms into sales, but it sure won't happen with just a plain old salespage.

so what's the lesson?

I don't know... play around with your delivery, think out of the box, test your conversions, use multimedia, create an experience, create interactivity ... but don't assume that if you have a headline, fancy copywriting and some bullet points that it will convert the best.


- Rob

[Drew Castle]

Interesting post Rob, and many valid points!

Occassionally I'll read a salesletter if I haven't really been pre-sold something, and I haven't got a clue what's really being sold.

[Damian Kitchen]

i be honest im very new to this online business stuff.

initially i would read long ass salesletters to the very end as i didnt know anyhting about this business. im still trying to learn and i havent made any money online as yet.

but in terms of long ass sales letters i dont read anymore, i simply join lists or trial products myself instead of reading the sales letters..

for me reading long sales letters doesnt happen anymore. and i only started 3 months ago. i got fed up reading for half hour i dont think its necessary.

but then.....maybe thats why i havent made any money online coz i dont use long sales letters.

long sales letters......definitely not for me

[citrus]

I agree that testing is the way to go. You make a good point in your very last sentence about having a headline, sales letter, and bullets and expecting it to work best every time.

I kind of disagree on a few points though.

First off, I'd like to point out that long-winded sales letters are never good for selling anything, simply because they're long-winded. On the other hand, if you have well-written copy that happens to be really long but is being shown to the ideal prospect, then it would lead to a sale. Of course, the ideal prospect might just head straight to the buy button.

You're right that the hot prospect (or even the really hot prospect) is a minority, but I think you twisted the truth a little with that statement. Of course the hot prospect is a minority - otherwise, we'd regularly see 50%+ conversions rates with traditional sales letters and 90%+ conversions on upsells ;D

The sales letter isn't the only thing that closes the sale. There's also emails and prior experiences with the product owner. In a launch, the pre-launch does much of the selling, hence the "sideways sales letter". I think that if you do that other stuff properly, it won't matter what you have right before the buy button because the person will either want or not want to buy. If they're not sure, they're probably not your ideal prospect.

I know your aim with this thread was pretty much to help us squeeze more money out of the funnel, but wouldn't you agree that you shouldn't fix what ain't broke? I mean, if a sales letter is converting well, I'm not going to tear it down and start testing some sales videos.

Just my opinion though.

Curtis

P.S. I often read emails, read sales letters, and watch sales videos, even if I'm not interested in buying/clicking/opting in. But of course, none of our personal preferences matter when it comes to marketing ;)

[Rob Toth]

Sure thing Curtis.

And that post was mostly just food for thought for those who want to consider/entertain my arguement. I don't expect everyone to agree, nor is it "written in stone" or gospel.

But there's one final point (maybe a clarification) I'd want to make....

Salesletters work. Yes.

In direct mail, video isn't an option, audio isn't an option. So the letter has to sell.

In print, same thing. Visual aides, proof, screenshots can be provided but no video, no interactivity, no audio, no nothing.

BUT... step back and think of sales in general. A multi dimensional attack plan, one that hits all senses (hence the video that is actually just the audio of the merchant reading the salestext which is then displayed in a slideshow format is effective).. interactivity you'll never beat (engage the customer in anything and you'll JUMP conversions... hence seminars, webinars and surveys/quizzes that lead to the sale are all high conversion items).

Point is... on the web, you can pretty well do any and all of them.

So to stick with "here's my long salespage", good luck with that. Because even the best salescopy has a tough time fighting for the attention of a ADD customer in a *HYPER SATURATED MARKET* ...

Again, if your offer is one of only a few good ones (or you're the only good one they find because your marketing actually reaches that prospect), then sure... you could force them to read a letter, write you a letter, fill out an application, make a phone call, do a rain-dance... whatever you want. Because if they want YOUR solution badly and you're one of only a few, then you can grip their attention.

But that's far from the case in hyper-competitive, hyper-saturated markets like the IM space and biz opps spaces (for example).

So what this means is if you're the guy with just a pretty graphic, pretty headline and even a $30,000 salesletter... you'll have a tougher time getting the attention of your user if I'm doing things like creating engaging flash games, surveys that lead to CUSTOM salespages, interactive videos, action-trigger audios etc etc.

[citrus]

Yep, it makes sense to attack the prospect from multiple directions. That's something we can learn from the offline world, where we see ads on TV, billboards, the newspaper, radio, buses, the subway, flyers, bus shelters, etc. Imagine if we were only ever hit with through one advertising medium!

As for a hyper-saturated market, I don't think IM is the best example. I would disagree that it is saturated at all, but even if it was, the IM market is different because we're generally accustomed to being sold to in certain ways.

If you toss some random consumer from the street onto a sales page of any kind, they'd be like, WTF is this?! But as IMers, we see a bunch of them everyday, it seems. We're used to seeing them, we're used to putting them up, and we're used to buying from them.

Even if many of us don't like them, it's what we're comfortable with.

But again, I do agree that you can't just stick with a simple sales letter, no matter how good it is, and expect it to convert the best.

There's always something you can do to improve conversions, even by the slightest bit.

[Rob Toth]

"If you toss some random consumer from the street onto a sales page of any kind, they'd be like, WTF is this?! But as IMers, we see a bunch of them everyday, it seems. We're used to seeing them, we're used to putting them up, and we're used to buying from them."

Completely disagree. Sorry Curtis. Still love ya!!!

Direct response and sales letters are used in all sorts of niches. And prospects from all sorts of markets do arrive at long scrolling sales letters... and, in other niches, where the delivery isn't as common, I'd venture to suggest that it converts better.

The core reason why it doesn't work as well in IM is *BECAUSE* everyone automatically does it.

Though now you'll see a continued wave of video pitches and less and less salesletters in the IM space because the savvy guys (look at the last 7 or so big ticket launches) already know the above... and now the general market is about to adapt it blindly because, well, that's what the general market always does.

PS. Dan Kennedy's own latest offer is a video of him reading through a slideshow of bullet points (ie: it's salescopy in a powerpoint-type video). ANd he's a copywriter and sells copywriting courses, lol.

re: hyper-saturated... definition: the prospects who are ACTIVE in the market have massive access to SUPPLY. There aren't THAT many internet marketers. There are plenty of biz opportunists who tell themselves they want to market and sell online but even if you want to include them in the IM space (though they belong in the biz opp category), it still doesn't change the fact that in THIS FORUM ALONE and through Mike mailings alone it's info product after info product after info product about internet marketing. The supply is everywhere. IM is certainly hyper-saturated.

[citrus]

Haha, disagreement is good...it makes for good discussions!

What I meant by "random consumer from the street", and I should have been more clear in my wording, was someone who isn't used to buying stuff online. Yes, copy is used offline as well, but even if it does happen to come in the form of a sales letter, it won't be the same as an online sales letter which involves scrolling, clickable links, minisite graphics, opt-in boxes, etc.

As for your definition of "hyper saturated", you're right, there is MASSIVE supply. There also happens to be MASSIVE demand. That's why we, unfortunately, often see rehashed material being sold as original products. And, even worse, people keep buying this stuff.

[Andy Havens]

Rob,

I finished reading part of your post before moving on, ending up at my email to find an email from Denny Hatch and this article: Why Americans Won't/Don't Read. http://www.targetmarketingmag.com/article/why-americans-cant-dont-wont-read/1

Almost makes me want to think.

Andy

[Rob Toth]

Anyone can argue it all they want. I respect that. But I think it's a complete mistake.

This isn't the days of yesterday.

Just thinking "salescopy works because it always has" is a blanket statement and is false in many ways.

We DO have SHARPLY reduced attention spans thanks to Skype dinging away, facebook telling us we have a message, text message coming in, cell phone call, landline call and on it goes

Pre-internet, pre-cell phone, pre-TV crowds didn't have A HAIR OF A FRACTION of as much information and communications hitting them as today.

Even in my FutureOfInfoMarketing.com series, I suggested (and other well-rounded entrepreneurs agreed) that BITE SIZED is the key. Quote of the day. 15 minute interviews. Sound bites, Exeucitve summaries.

Some will jump in and say "well hold on, I still listen to 2 hour audios and I still read full books"... yes, but that person is a dying breed. Plenty such consumers out there, but even they have a lot more competing for their attention.

In fact, that's another reason why "pre-launch pre-selling" works ... not just because it's multiple exposures or because it builds anticipation... but because it's a chunked down sales process. You pitch a few facts, a few features, a few benefits to the prospect in an email or a video... then you followup with another.

Anyways, I stand by my arguement. There's not a single niche that I would use a long scrolling salesletter for these days ONLINE. I have video, audio and a million and one bells and whistles at my disposal that will engage and convert my prospect better. But it's almost asking for failure (or at least significantly reduced conversions) to do it in hyper competitive, hyper saturated markets.

Thanks for posting that article.

I skimmed it. ;)

[citrus]

I stand by your argument too, Rob.

It's just a few details that we kind of disagree on. But big picture, I totally agree: you'll lose if you think one advertising medium is the be all end all for your business.

[Rob Toth]

Incidentally, I just learned of what Jeff Walker labels "the sideways salesletter"... basically the exact same thing we're all talking about: "visitors won't read the long sales letter" so he shows how the launch process chunks it down and delivers the sales messages in bite sized formats.

[Jeffrey Dean]

the salesletter still works. it occasionally morphs with time. its simply finding a way to connect with your audience.

in my opinion people want to be entertained and one very powerful way is through stories. also what i see happening for some people creating salesletters is they don't either entertain, connect or teach, hence a bad salesletter. it also helps to have Bold periodically for the ADD people.

see what the top sellers are doing to sell their own products not what they are telling you to do.

[Rob Toth]

"see what the top sellers are doing to sell their own products not what they are telling you to do. "


So using videos and an interactive process. ;) And that includes Dan Kennedy, by the way. And all the recent big ticket info product launches.

[Jeffrey Dean]

videos and interactive definitely - just before you do a big roll out - test, test, test.

for some reason videos don't work as well as sales letters with some low end products. so i would do a split test if for some reason you start with low end products (which I would discourage).

[Chad H]

Its just a matter of testing, always has been. Test 3 widely varying styles if budget and time permit.

On a side note, ive always wanted to test a sales video that has the entertainment value of a movie trailer.

Most of what i have done has been outside the IM niche, and stories have always worked well for me, just not in the long form sales letter format.

[Jeffrey Dean]

just interested, what was the response from your subscribers to your email of the "no salesletters"?

[Rob Toth]

I expanded on my original post and included talk of some of the built in opportunity associated with all this...

If you want to read that followup, head over to:

http://www.robthegenietoth.com/lesson-about-selling-online/

[mikencm]

Rob, somewhere earlier you used the phrase "BITE SIZED".

That sort of struck a nerve because I've always thought that
breaking copy up into bite-sized pieces was a key factor in
any good copy.

It's easy to get lost in long copy (let alone bored). But if long
copy is required here's something I like to check. Take all of
the body copy from the letter and mentally discard it. What's
left is a series of sub headers.

Just as one sentence within a paragraph should cue up the
next to produce a natural flow of thought, so too should
each sub-header flow naturally to the next.

In other words, if one were to read only the sub headers
within the copy they should have a fair idea of what's
being discussed.

This is not always the case even in some guru type letters
and it gives a choppy look to the thing.

But let's be honest, at least in the IM niche, all other things
being equal, the money flows to those who feed the visitors
the red meat they hunger for--whether you feed it to them
from a long spoon or a short one, if you serve it up to
hungry buyers they'll take a bite. --Mike

[abbesnetwork]

Hi Rob,

I agree with you till one point. It depends on what you try to do. You make a sale throught a squeeze page. On short term you might win but on long term you lose in people's trust. If i want to build a list i do only that, if i wanna sale i make a sales letter.

Just my opinion
Razvan

[steve adams]

I would say with the popularity of Facebook, Twitter and the like, people read ALL the time. They read short updates and posts, and they also read very long posts. As long as the very first sentence or paragraph gets them, and they are interested, they will read.

[steve adams]

Also a good friend of mine told me that only 5% of marketers are using video, so get in on it now if you can. And video has it's advantages with SEO also. Not video itself but the file size. So if you could do your entire info product in a series of video's that could really help out.