Any real pro copywriters?

[lianjunyi]

I launched a product two weeks ago with the salespage I wrote myself. I'm not good at writing, I'm not even a native English speaker. As you can imagine, the conversion is less than 1%.

I need a real pro copywriter for my next launch. Can someone advise me any good copywriter?

I know that David Raybould is good, but I'm tired of the "It's NOT about SEO, adwords, media buying, etc,etc..." thing, I will close the window immediately when I see these kind of words.

I'm thinking of someone else, maybe Kevin Rogers. But I need more copywriters to choose on.

Any good advice?

[Rob Toth]

Hi Isaac,
You should post this in the NEED JV Related Services

Go to http://www.jvnotifypro.com/community/index.php#1 (main index) and scroll down.

Also browse the PROVIDE JV Related Services. Copywriters are listed there too.



Questions to answer first though:

- what's the industry/vertical? Unless you don't want to make this public to protect your niche, you should mention it.

- if your offer is already live, provide a link so a copywriter can skim the offer and better guage how complex the topic is and how unique the story can be (again, unless you have a reason to keep it secret, please mention it)

- what's your budget? Like anything else... you pay for a premium name, chances are you'll end up with a very unique and compelling salescopy (not necessarily but in most cases) and your potential affiliates will be more comfortable mailing if it's a respected name... BUT you're paying top dollar. OR you can find a talented up-and-comer who writes fantastic copy but doesn't have the name branding and client base in place yet... so you can get great work for relatively very cheap.

The budget for an established copywriter starts in the $8k range and can run you $30,000 for a really world class writer.

I have 2 copywriters who do all my work these days. For the first 4+ years I wrote my own copy, it converted well, was recognized in copywriting forums, I sold copywriting as a service but these days I no longer offer copywriting and, in fact, I don't even do it for my pages. But I have 2 talented writers. I trust them both and they each produce GREAT work.

I don't have any work for them until likely mid January. So get in touch if you'd like an introduction but I'll need the answers to the above questions first.


Also are you only looking for 1 salesletter? Or squeeze copy, direct response ads, affiliate toolbox emails, AR emails etc?

Finally... have you considered having a hybrid page? Sales video + sales text. It's the same copy, except one gets read and recorded as video, but you still have text on the page.

P.S. I'm about to spend 3-months with a seriously heavy hitter copywriter (charges $27,000 per letter and has endorsements from legends such as the "4 billion dollar man" Ted Nicholas). So I'm going to be mecca of world class direct response copywriting lol.

Anyways... get in touch on skype (robtoth) or email thegenie @ robtoth.com (remove the spaces).


Regardless... best wishes with the new offer.

OH!! and also mention the timeline. I see it's not for a launch and your offer is already live, but when do you need it by.

These are all useful questions for a prospective copywriter to be able to help you. Cheers!

[ianlian]

@Rob Toth, really thanks for the informations, I learnt a lot from your posts.

I'm also looking for a good copywriter, David Raybould said he will write me 4 salespages (3 upsells) for $20,000, and 6 emails as bonus. Is it really worth?

By the way, I never mentioned the " NEED JV Related Services" before. Thanks Rob.

And, thanks @Mike Merz, for building up this amazing community.

[ianlian]

By the way, I never mentioned the " NEED JV Related Services" before. Thanks Rob.



I meant "I never noticed it until you mentioned it...";D

[Rob Toth]

>> 4 salespages (3 upsells) for $20,000,

This is one of those executive decision you need to make.

But consider this...

Let's say a quality salescopy helps boost your conversion by just 1%.

So if your own attempt converts at 0.5% on cold traffic... but a star copywriter's offer converts at 1.5%, you are now seeing 3x the revenue from the salescopy. Correct?

(sure there's more variables in there but for simple math let's follow that).

Well... how much traffic do you anticipate you can drive to the offer each month? If you're getting started, you might be operating with very low traffic numbers. Let's say 1000 unique visitors per month.

If your offer is a $100 product. Then...

Your salescopy to you is worth 1000 visitors x 0.5% x $100 product = $5 sales x $100 = $500 gross revenue. Which, after either affiliates are paid or advertising money is factored in, let's say is $250 net.

With a more effective salesletter...

1000 visitors x 1.5% conversion x $100 product = 15 sales x $100 = $1500 gross = maybe $750 net.

In the above scenario ... to YOU is a $10,000 letter worth it?

Of course not. It's overkill.

You will have poured a lot of money into refining the sales process yet you're hurting in the "distribution" (ie: traffic) department which, in the above scenario is definitely where you want to money spent.


But consider if someone can get the distribution in place. Maybe because they are a big brand company (large corporations, major real estate companies, insurance brokerage companies and all sorts of verticals buy salescopy too!), or maybe you have a large internal database ("list") or you have a lot of JV/Affiliate partners etc etc...

If you can get 1,000,000 unique visitors to your offer quick then...

1,000,000 x 0.5% x $100 = 5000 sales x $100 = $500,000 gross

but a higher converting, quality salesletter...

1,000,000 x 1.5% x $100 = 15,000 sales x $100 = $1,500,000 gross revenue.


So to THEM, someone with high volume distribution, is it worth paying $20,000, $27k (like my friend gets paid REGULARLY), even $50,000 + bonuses for a high converting salescopy??? Of course.


It comes down to distribution and being able to make the numbers work.

You could be sitting there with the prettiest $27,000 salesletter from my friend (though, of course top copywriters don't take on small jobs so it wouldn't even happen)... but if you can't drive enough target prospects to your offer, your money was wasted.


So consider all that.




Or during a launch if you prefer the launch models

So if your own attempt pulls in

[Rob Toth]

There is the other side of the coin though...

If you were to tell me that Ted Nicholas, John Carlton or Craig Garber wrote a salescopy for your new product launch (and I actually believed you), there's no question I'd take you very seriously, I'd take a careful look at your offer and I'd at least test to see what sort of EPC I can get with your offer.

So there is a value to having a top premium copywriter on board. It will position you as someone who is serious and your affiliates will have more faith in your offer.

But both of those points are nothing more than feel good nonsense IF you can't get the traffic volumes to justify the high spend.

(though like I said, top copywriters have opportunities on their table for what company, industry and product to write for on a daily basis so they wouldn't even take on a project unless they know it's backed with a lot of firepower. )



--------------------------------------------

Lingo definition for the few who might be new here. EPC = Earnings Per Click. It's the ONLY variable that really matters when you're the affiliate. How much do you stand to earn PER CLICK (per unique visitor) you send. And what YOU care about is your NET EPC. Don't pay attention to the EPC which is too often an inflated BS number that a merchant might give... because even if they're giving you a very median and honest number, they are probably talking about the Gross EPC that they see.

A merchant might see "we're seeing $4+ EPC". To me that means it's probably only $4 in their best scenarios. Which means most are probably getting $2 EPCs *and* that's the gross earnings (sales) so as an affiliate being paid 50%, I'd actually see $1 Net EPC only.

Sidenote: If your offer does get exceptionally high EPCs, do anything and everything you can to show multiple exact proof and specific examples.




@Ian and @Isaac ... by all means dig around. But I'm personally studying media buying aggressively. So I'm very much setting up to push 100,000+ uniques to my offers on a monthly basis. So conversions matter to me. I'm very happy with the wok that 2 different copywriters I have in my digital rolodex do for me.

I won't give their info publicly because I don't want them to have too much work on their plate (it means slower responses to my jobs and eventually higher/premium prices). But as mentioned, I don't have new copy work for them until mid Jan. If you want a PRIVATE intro to one of them or discuss further ... you'll end up with a very effective letter and you're paying around $4000 for it. Get in touch. My info is all over www.RobToth.com .

[ianlian]

@Rob I got your point.

But every JV page posted on the "JVNP index wall" claim they have got 4%~6% conversions. So maybe it will boost the conversion more than 1%.

About the traffic, of course we don't need to get it all by ourselves. If I have got high converting salespages, I will test it, prove it. Then I will get more affiliates.

In fact, the first thing come up into my mind that cause me looking for a good copywriter is "I need a good salescopy to attract more JVs."

[Rob Toth]

Ian, I was posting that as something to consider for others who may have a similar question.

As for:


"But every JV page posted on the "JVNP index wall" claim they have got 4%~6% conversions."

This is where remembering that 99% of statistics are made up on the spot. (like the one I just gave you).

Fly at it.

But I've seen the conversions of TOP copywriters. I mean ones that are really kings in what they do. And 6% sales conversions from cold traffic is damn near impossible. Of course, that's a blanket statement. It does matter on industry and price point.

I'd take that statistic though as nothing more than unsubstantiated nonsense that someone wrote up because they wanted to look good to their copywriter friend in the testimonial they provide.

But if they'd like to instead back that up... by posting 3 months worth of stats prior to changing salescopy and then 3 months of stats after changing the salescopy, then I'd be happy to apologize.

Anyways... to me (and I think you'll find) those are garbage numbers.

Regardless though, my point was 1% increase in my exmple TRIPLED sales.

so if you prefer, swap my numbers with a start of 2% that then gets boosted to 6%. It's the same exact ration. The end result is the same (3 X the sales).

or swap it with 10% conversion vs 30% conversion if you like. Again, same math.

The math was the point.

And I'd also suggest that before you invest $20k for a copywriter, you instead invest $3k for a decent one or $4k for my guys or $8k for another good one... and then invest the balance into ADVERTISING. And after investing the $12k+ into advertising, you'll have enough actual stats (and cashflow!!) to then upgrade your entire sales funnel, bring in even better copy and then be taken seriously by top tier super affiliates.

the point to take away though, is my example was suggesting 3X sales and is there merely to paint a picture of how the math unfolds. Distribution is king though.

BTW... I've never heard of the copywriter that you mentioned. So whether great or not, you dropping their name doesn't carry the weight of what I was mentioning in my example. Instead if they did write copy for some amazingly successful promotions, then make sure you drop the name of the promotion not the writer.

[Rob Toth]

As possible food for thought to others who might be new to all this... I want to leave this to think about.

Ignore numbers that marketers give you (or post in testimonials) that don't have details in them. They might mean well but excitement and relationships or just error in how they interpret numbers usually leads to garbage information.

Not necessarily on purpose. This isn't about "don't trust others". But just know there's a lot more to the story than the conversion numbers and EPC numbers that you might read.

Example...

Of course low ticket consumer merchandise from a big brand would convert a hell of a lot more than a high ticket info product, so keep that in mind.

But assuming this 6% conversion for a second.

Take one of the big $2000 product launches.

You can be sure that the guys (especially the Syndicate boys) who launch $2k products and these days $5k products have the funds to pony up for a $30,000 salesletter. And they often do.

But that letter, for COLD TRAFFIC, would NOT convert at 6%. If it did...

Then 100 visitors would result in 6 sales (6% conversion) at $2000 each.

That's 6 x $2000 = $12,000 for every 100 UNIQUE VISITORS.

THAT works out to $1200 PER visitor.

Now I'm going to be stupid for a second... but in the IM space I can find targetted, relevant prospects for IM offers for $1 or less.

So if I could drive traffic to an offer than handed me $1200 for every $1 I invest, I'd probably be promoting that quite heavily. ;-)

Instead...

The reason you see those $2k offers get pre-launched, pushed from many channels (ie: JV partners etc) is to build the buzz and anticipation (as everyone in the forum here probably knows)... and the reason for the scarcity and urgency plays is to cash in on the fear of loss.

All of those elements and more is what boosts the offer's conversion to high levels.

(Not to mentioned the endorsed mailing from the super affiliate partners).

Even in that scenario, you'd never see 6% conversions. But that certainly isn't not a scalable, long term funnel.

A typical 2k offer, if sold via advertising would see less than 0.5% conversion at best (ie: mor than 200 unique visitors would be needed to close the sale). AND even then, it would be only if they had a quality sales copy and sales funnel.

So the generic "boosted conversions by _______" numbers... you can pretty much just see it and ignore it. I put zero weight on it unless they clarify what the product was, who the target prospect was, where the visitors came from and how much traffic / sales data that figure is based on.

The above is just something to think about for ALL data and stats.

Again, it's not a matter of others wanting to lie to you. There are a lot of great, ethical people out there. It doesn't mean their emotions, relationships or how they interpret the numbers don't affect it.

[Rob Toth]

Case in point... webinars.

Webinar guys will be quick to say "we're converting at an amazing 25%!!!".

That stat is probably, again, their best stat. So typically they likely convert at 15%. (It's like when you guy buddy tells you how many girls he's slept with... always round down... he's stroking his own ego when giving you a beefed up number).

But more importantly, even the 15% conversion doesn't mention that it's based on webinar attendees who stayed the whole presentation.

Typically a webinar host only cares about "who heard the sales pitch? 100 people? and we sold 15? that means we convert at 15%.".

Well...

You first need to get a prospect to the pitch page for the webinar.

They then have to sign up for the webinar.

They then have to ATTEND the webinar.

And they then need to stick around for the entire webinar before the "15% conversion" kicks in.


How that math looks is:

Send 1000 prospects to the webinar pitch page.

300 of them sign up for the webinar.

100 of them actually attend the webinar.

80 of them stick around for the full presentation.

Of which 80 x 15% = 12 sales.

12 of them BUY.

But the true stat of how the webinar funnel converts is:

1000 targetted unique visitors = 12 customers.

And THAT is 1.2% conversion not 15% conversion (or the beefed up 25% they tell you).

You MUST know these kinds of numbers before you invest your time and money into anything as an affiliate.

personally, I rarely take part in 3rd party affiliate promotions. But before I do, I really dig into how the numbers really unfold. And that way when I jump in, I can give it a SERIOUS effort to make the MOST for myself and the merchant.

[Laurie Rogers]

Copywriting is one area I really stink! I can write about any subject, in any fashion, but when it comes to the pitch, forget it. And everyone always assumes that because you're a good writer, you can write sales pitches, not true! People as a general rule, have a hard time selling themselves, let alone a product/service. Since I am focusing a lot on media buying and mobile marketing right now, I will probably hire someone to do the "pitching" for my new business, but I have every intention of taking John Carlton's course next year, as I have a passion for learning.

Thanks for the info Rob ;)

[ianlian]

This isn't about "don't trust others".


You just make me be doubtful of any statistic from others. LOL

I saw Mo Latif (one of clickbank gurus?) said one of his launch (Rapid Mass Traffic) did $2.3 million in sales
(in the Auto Mass Traffic JV letter). Let's assume he got only $1 EPC, then that means he had 2.3 million visitors?

Andrew Wallace showed a screenshot of $9.80 per hop from clickbank in his Auto Traffic Monopoly JV invite page.

Did they just make that up?

I prefer to believe that they are doing a great job and making a fortune from clickbank. It amazed me when I saw the clickbank gravity they got, 1200+(Mo Latif's Auto Mass Traffic), 800+(Auto Traffic Monopoly).

Let's forget about the copywriting and the math, @Rob, I thought you never took part in clickbank promotions (just hypothesis), do you believe that someone are making 7 figure or even 8 figure per year from clickbank? That's what I'm aiming to be, a clickbank guru.

Anyway, thanks Rob, for the info you wrote, I really learnt alot form this conversation. I think there are too many things I need to learn before I can do a successful launching.

[Rob Toth]

Of course there are 7 figure CB launches.

And plenty of 8 figure gross revenues info marketers.

As for your "during launch EPC"... $1 would be very low. I've seen $17+ EPCs personally. During a launch, that number can climb a LOT because the weeks or months of anticipation, social proof, and pre-selling means the launch day visitors are mostly pre-sold.


>> Andrew Wallace showed a screenshot of $9.80 per hop from clickbank in his Auto Traffic Monopoly JV invite page.

That's his gross I'm sure... but even if it wasn't, again, I've seen $17+ gross EPC from our own promos and I know other verticals have seen $33+ EPC (and I'm sure others have far surpassed that).

Again, a launch is like a Prometheus attack which, in the most basic terms, is a coordinated attack that is planned in detail and executed in strategic sequences to cripple the system.

Think about it... if I'm trying to fight your army + navy + airforce and I send in 1 soldier, 1 pilot, 1 navy to go battle your guys... I will only moderately annoy you and maybe kill off a few of your troops in the process. (ie: very low conversion).

If instead I plan a coordinated attack where first, all my forces focus on eliminating your airforce... now I have a great chance of winning that battle... next I simulatnously attack using my full army+navy+airforce and target your ground troops, I'll probably win that too and then I go after the rest. (ie: high conversion).

In a launch, the pre-sell emails, the forum buzz, the facebook branding, the contests, the preview calls, the teaser videos, the blog posts all build you up for the main event. Which increases my chances of converting those short-list of interested prospects into sales at a very high conversion.

So yes during a launch, much higher than $1 EPCs are very real.


>> Did they just make that up?

No and that wasn't what I was getting at. A screenshot is "real" from an ethical marketer. But someone writing in their testimonial a generic statement such as "he boosted our conversions 6%!!!" is an empty statement.

It's not about people LYING to you. Just simply you needed to look further into the psychology.

Anyways... by all means take the info as you will. It wasn't to suggest others are lying (as I stated), it was to suggest that this is the land of MARKETING. And an efficient marketer knows how to spotlight the part of the truth that they know the majority will turn into their own perceptions.

[Rob Toth]

Sorry for the benefit of this post (and others who may read it) ... I want to chime in on this 1 thing:


I prefer to believe that they are doing a great job and making a fortune from clickbank.

Ian, I do apologize if what you got out of any of my posts was some sort of naysayer nonsense like "it can't be done", "everyone is lying" etc. That is definitely NOT the case.

But... to further talk about numbers.

Often during a launch for a product that has recurring billing, the reported figures will include a 12-month forecasted sales figure. Meaning if your recurring is $97 and you sell 1000 copies ... that's $100,000 per month. It's not uncommon to have that be reported as a $1.2 million dollar launch.

THAT is reality. Not naysayer or negative. I just happen to have friends in various verticals and we have late night skype conversations, private facebook messages about the real NET REVENUES. Not to mention, I've seen true gross vs true net figures in promotions where I was equity partner and even the ones I launched.

Gross figures and the typical marketing-spin can really make numbers deceptive if you don't know how to interpret them.

Again though, to feed the point of the post I just made before this one... technically reporting a $100,000 month as a $1.2 million dollar launch isn't "lying". It's just plain old marketing. Because they simply spotlight the forecasted number versus the actual revenue.

In addition, on CB products refunds are particularlly high in the marketer-savvy verticals such as forex (where refund rates are typically 30%+) and the IM space where refunds rates are 15-20%. That's not my theory. Ask anyone who has sold at least a couple of hundred units in those markets and see if they don't agree. In many cases, it's 25% refunds simply because too many in the CB world know how to cheat the system.

Furthermore, CB keeps roughly $8 of every $97 purchase (as an example). That's from their 7.5% fees + $1 flat. That's roughly $8.50 if the sale was $97. Well that means 8.5% of the sales are also eaten up.

And, as you probably will note, many CB launches are setup to raise gravity and visibility for the long term benefits. So during launch weeks, affiliates are paid often 60% - 75% commissions of their sales.

And I went to check the 2 examples you referenced, they currently show 60% and 70% commissions respectively. So let's use 65% as the average.

So... let me just plant a seed. Something that can maybe just help anyone reading this consider the full picture.

************************************************** *****
************************************************** *****
************************************************** *****

Suppose I wanted to go big on a CB launch.

I'd build the product, pages, graphics, pre-launch etc.

I'd invest at least 2 months into this process and probably about $10,000 (when you factor in teaser videos, salescopy, graphics, virtual assistants and more). Not to mention, over those 2 months I've focused on pretty much only this project so there is an "opportunity" lost cost of money that I could have made elsewhere.

So far... into my big launch... I'm 2 months invested and $10,000 down. (Those are conservative and very fair numbers).

If I want to go BIG and I'm SMART... then what I care about is the long term exposure I get in the marketplace. The higher my gravity and the more units sold, the more likely that other CB affiliates will find my offer and promote it for me in the long term... long after the launch buzz is gone.

Launch day comes.

After all is said and done, I have 2000 sales at $97 each. For simplicity, let's call that $200,000 revenue.

Since I want to build confidence in my affiliates, I'll likely use the projected figure of $200k x 12 months = $2.4 million dollar launch. (StomperNet boys did precisely this and so do many others. It's just common practice).

But, in reality, I only had $200,000 come in so far.

Now...

It cost me 65% that I'm paying out to affiliates.

So my aff payouts are : $130,000

Clickbank keeps their 8.5%.

So I lose: $17,000

The whole thing cost me at least $10,000

Oh and I'll definitely see at least 15% refund rate.

So from clawbacks/refunds, I'll lose $30,000 (though the affiliates also don't receive commissions on this, of course).

Just even adding up the percents of what I lose ... that's 65% to affiliates, 8.5% to CB = 73.5% of my gross revenue I never see and, 15% of my total sales I'll never see. And that's real numbers. By no means "alarmist" or negative nonsense. Just legit math.).

In this very real-to-life scenario, my $200,000 in revenues for my AT LEAST 2 months of work and effort pays out like this...

$200,000 x 15% full refunds = $30,000
$170,000 x 73.5% that I never see (due to aff comms and CB fees) = $124,950

So ...

$170,000 - $124,950 = $45,050 actual pay day.

Since I didn't work on much else during my 2 months building this, it's only fair to properly count that net as $22,525 per month for all my efforts. (And I won't calculate it further but you'll find a lot of the launches are a partnership between 2 marketers which means you need to split that even further to a net of roughly $11k per month per person).

** Again, I don't want to kill your dreams nor suggest that there isn't big money being made, but everything I stated is real. the 65% affiliate commissions is real (many launches even pay 75%); the 8.5% you lose to CB as a merchant is very real; the 15% refund rate is much too real (in fact, many merchant will tell you 25% can be expected). And there IS a time-cost and "opportunity lost" cost associated with every launch.



Let me paint a picture using a very big name marketer who I know very well. I won't name him and it's irrelevant either way but I just want to have you (the reader) consider the real numbers.

He built a promotion across 8 months. It wasn't full time especially on his part, but it did take up 8 months worth of part-time focus.

His outsourcing bill (various pro videos, tech work, salescopy, teaser content development) was $100,000.

He had a lot of muscle behind it and they launched and sold $600,000. That is NOT the typical "12-month forecast" numbers. That's actual $600k revenue.

However, he was paying 60%.

I don't know his refunds rates but based on the price point, it was at least 5%. Probably 15%+ but let's use 5%.

I won't even factor merchant fees etc.

But his real numbers were:

$600,000 x 5% refunds = $570,000 gross
$570,000 x 60% aff comms leaves him with = $228,000
(again I'm being very conservative with refunds and haven't even factored merchant fees etc).
From $228,000 he invested $100,000 to put it together.
So his payday, after 8 months of work is $128,000

Not bad at all... but the above was a BIG success. Not record breaking mind you. But that $128,000 NET payday was from a VERY successful promotion.

So always consider how the numbers REALLY unfold for the lesser promotions.

[Rob Toth]

While I don't know the specifics of your particularly chosen examples, the process and numbers are very much real life. So yes, that's how a $2.4 million dollar launch actually can equal roughly $22k for 2 months worth of work (for 2 CB partners). Not bad... but $11k per month of work is very different picture than the $2.4 mil that many interpret.

OH and in the off chance that the merchants in your example did NOT use 12 month projections and they did in fact close $2.3 mill in actual revenue (which I seriously doubt and I say that with respect), even then... when you tear apart the numbers, their payday would be in the $200k range. THAT of course is a great payday but still not $2.3 mill. Again though, I'm pretty sure projected figures were used as that's just become started practice with launches that have recurring billing.

[ianlian]

As a newbie making $3k~$4k per month with CB promotions, I was hoping to make at least $200k with the a launch which would be invested lest than $40k.

After all these analytics, You make me realized that my hopes were but vain.

I saw your another topic "how to get credibility, leads, name exposure and product sales VERY fast".

I will try the method of "YOU will get ownership, I'll simply be introduced as co-creator and you walk with 90% of sales but I get access to the leads that opt-in for this."

What a bright thought!

@Rob, you broke my hopes, but you make me see through the reality. Thanks Rob, and happy new year!

[Rob Toth]

>> @Rob, you broke my hopes,

Not sure if I can accept a thanks for breaking hopes. :(

I never want to be part of the energy sucking, negative, naysayer crowd.

There's big money being made in a lot of places. There are indeed folks NETTING 5-figures PER DAY or Six figures PER WEEK. That's net.

There's nothing stopping you from building a ridiculously profitable empire.

I simply wanted to shed light onto some of the numbers that don't get talked about. But definitely not aiming to "break your hope".

I for one, just appreciate accurate discussions of the big numbers.

And it's also why individuals like John Reese gained so much popularity... when he had his "million dollar day", he then released a report detailing how it took him 9 months (??) to put that promotion together and MANY hours and I think affiliates of that launch can attest that 70% commissions were being paid out.

So his "million dollar day" was definitely not a one day event. It was nearly a one year build. And it definitely wasn't a million NET in his pocket. Much much less. I think in the report (I haven't read it for years now) he even talks of how it was closer to 10% as net. And even if he doesn't talk of it, that would make sense given the up front investment costs, the physical product fullfilment costs, the high affiliate commission payouts etc.

BUT... he was up front and direct about the numbers. And for that I respected him. AND he then also confirmed that in the first WEEK of promotions he DID *net* 7-figures.

Point is, I see more value in being transparent and catering to the intelligence of an individual.

best of the new year to you too!!

[rayjohnson]

Hi Rob

Just have to drop this post to sum up what I thought was superb honesty and inegrity from you!

Any chance of writing me a salesletter?

Regards

Ray

[Rob Toth]

Hey Ray, thanks for the kudos.

I no longer write salesletters myself but I'm living in Malta right now with top copywriter Trevor Crook. If you need someone who is really pro.... I can get you connected. Probably even grab you a discount of sorts. But it wouldn't come cheap.

Regardless... all the best!

[Rob Toth]

Adding on to the talk of conversions...

Mike just sent out a JV Notify announcement that had this news:


A Word From Mike

Congrats To Alen Sultanic + Matt Bacak ... And The Fellow
JVNotifyPro Partners That Helped Make Their Mass Money
Makers Launch A Multiple Time CB Record Breaker.

CB Record 2013.24 Gravity, Over 20 Thousand Front
End Sales, Most First Day Sales, 7551 Affiliates Made At
Least One Sale, Over 2,734,631 Unique Visitors + The List
Goes On ... But They Couldn't Have Done It Without YOU.

This isn't the first CB record breaker I've been a part of
by a long shot, but it certainly is the biggest to date.

Check Out The Original JV Announcement ...

http://www.jvnotifypro.com/community/index.php/topic,5937.0.html

A Tip Of The Hat ... To All Involved. ;)



First, I'd like to echo that... a big congrats to both Matt and Alen. Very well done!

There's a reason why both of them are powerhouse marketers so them teaming up and creating this result is no surprise. But I don't doubt it took a LOT of hours and work on their end. Tremendous job!

But ... take a look at the conversions.

This is just simply to highlight how even a mega success, a record breaking launch doesn't receive the often touted 6%, 8%+ conversions. Those are isolated best-case conversions at best. It's never the "big picture".

By rough estimate, if Matt/Alen saw 2,734,631 visitors (or roughly that) for their promo and they generated let's say 20,000 front end sales... the conversion on that is 0.73%. Less than 1%.

And that's with a MEGA success put on by 2 top notch marketers.

Sure, some of the guys who promoted this offer likely saw conversions to their own list of 3%, 4%, maybe even that 6% or 8% etc. But those are their internal conversions. The overall page, from mixed traffic, converts at less than 1% and still made for a phenomenal success.

Just more math to be aware of.

[Robin Durham]

Isaac,

Here is the website to Ryan Healy, a professional copywriter. healymarketing.com. I have worked with him on campaigns with my company and he is great.

Hope this helps.

[Dave Lianelli]

Rob, it seems you scared away the OP.

But thanks for such incredibly insightful and honest posts. This kind of information can only be obtained from the inside, from those who got experience in these huge launches.

For any newbies, it's recommendable to see your business in stages. Build it from the ground up, keep re-investing your earnings and keep scaling things up. There are so many costs, which most people oversee:

-Product creation
-Website design
-Multimedia creation
-Website hosting
-Shoppingcart
-Emails (ie. aweber)
-Merchant account / CB fees
-Customer support
-Affiliate program
-JV prizes
-Aff/JV commissions
-JV manager
-Copywriting

And don't forget...

-Taxes
-Insurance (if an unhappy customer decides to sue you!)
-Legal advice (professional agreements, terms, contest rules etc)

Luckily, where I live... it's easy to convince the IRA (we got another name for it here though) that I'm selling services and intangible items. That means you get more tax benefits.

Imagine what even such thing as the hosting would cost for someone who received 2.5 million unique visitors, of which most on launch day. You'd need a serious private server to handle that! (Hence the 'melt down' we've seen so often in the IM market)

Thanks again Rob!

[ericbyrd]

Rob,

Awesome, insightful and helpful information..

Thanks for making the numbers make sense...

Eric

[earnme97]

Hey Isaac,

Well, there are many different kinds of copywriters. All depend on your budget.

You can get a copy done for your launch for $197, $1997, and even $19,997. (Yea! Some copywriters do charge $20k plus for their copies).

The 2 BEST places(as I believe) to find good copywriters are:-

1. JVNotifypro.com ---> Helloooo? Check out the JV services area, you will find some.

2. Warriorforum.com ---> This is another great place where you can find a variety of copywriters. You can find them in the 'Warriors For Hire' area. I myself have hired a couple of copywriters from there, for $297, and they have done absolutely excellent work.

As I said, it all depends on your budget, and not to forget the WAY you want your copy to be. Hyped or Non-Hyped.


If will be surprised to hear that there are some copywriters who specialise in Hyped or Non-Hyped copies. So theres a huge world out there, buddy.

As always, there are famous copywriters, like Mike WIlliams, Kevin Roger, David Rabound, etc, and there are non-famous ones.





Hope it helps
Sim